I have a railfan magzine I for the year but it had a map of the berkshireline from Danbury to Pittsfield mass on the map it showed a dairy building. I guess that it ship milk or other dairy products by rail at one point. Was the GE plant located in Pittsfield ? I know that large traansformers were loaded on to the newhavens center depressed flatcar for shipment on the nh.

Berkshire

At one time the Berkshire carried a lot of milk. I would say this traffic died out around WW II. But there had been a number of small "creameries" up the line in a number of villages; and in addition farmers brought their milk cans down to the stations and put them on morning train #141. Photos in the 1930s show that #141 carried a milk car every day, or just about every day.

RE the GE transformer plant, this was located on the B&A a couple of miles east of the junction with the New Haven. Since the Berkshire had (and has today!!) good clearances, transformer shipments were often interchanged into the New Haven.

milk on the Berk

A 1920 passenger-car consist book indicates that the C.E. Smith & Son dairy in Cornwall Bridge shipped/received a dedicated car to/from New Haven daily.

Milk on the Berkshire!

The last car of bottled cream out of the Borden's Plant in Canaan was somewhere between August 25th and September 29th, 1940. The timetables that I have for both dates show the timings in and out of Canaan. Trains #141 weekday mornings and #139 on Sunday mornings spent twelve minutes picking up this car which was headed for New York City. There was no Canaan layover time shown in the September 29th issue nor for any thereafter. Although I am not sure, I will stick my neck out and say that this was the end of any kind of dairy product service on the Berkshire.

Borden's milk off the Berk

Anyone have a NYC Electric Division ETT for some time in the '30s? I'm curious as to where NH 141/139 dropped that milk car (I doubt it carried it into GCT). I'm guessing at Mott Haven Yard for forwarding by local switcher to any one of several possible destinations in New York City.

Berkshire Borden Car!

John raises a good question as to where the Borden's car of bottled cream was dropped by both #139 and #141 after leaving Canaan. I think the car wound up in Harlem River; but, whether it came off in Danbury or in Stamford for later forwarding, I can't say. Of course there was a power change in Danbury and it could have come off there; however, the freight out of Danbury to Harlem River didn't leave until very late at night. That would have mean't that the car (it was iced) had to lay over all day in Danbury. If it came off in Stamford, it probably would have arrived in Harlem River much earlier. The problem with Stamford is that #139 does not show stopping there; only #141 on weekdays. Neither the Equipment Lists for passenger trains or the Arranged Freight Train Schedule booklets from this time period offer any clues. Not too many "old timers" around who could really answer this question either.

Berkmilk

You bring up a good point. I just assumed that this car was going to a destination along a NYC line within the City limits. It didn't cross my mind that it could be going to The Bronx somewhere along the NH. I guess I'm just used to thinking of all the milk destinations in New York City that were along various NYC lines (Harlem, Hudson, W.30 St. Branch, even within Mott Haven Yard itself).

I raised this question on the Yahoo milk-car forum. There are some people who frequent there who have NYC ETTs who can possibly shed some light on this subject. If there's any meaningful response I'll synthesize it and post it here.

Milk on te Berk

One approximately-1937 photo I have shows the milk car coming off 141 at Danbury with the power change. Was that done every day? Who can say ---- but there's hard proof that it was done

milk destination

I guess I should ask the large question, i.e. how do we know that Borden's car was going to New York City? Milk distribution was heavily regulated in those years and the Federal government decided the limits of 'milksheds', i.e. where milk for a given destination (e.g. New Yorck City) was allowed to come from. Was Connecticut even in the New York City milkshed? Was it possible the Borden's car off the Berk was destined for someplace in Connecticut?

Milk

I believe that it was most likely that the milk went to Harlem River, a large facility for distribution of NY City freight.

Milk

I believe that it was most likely that the milk went to Harlem River, a large facility for distribution of NY City freight.

Milk

Well, the milk car could have come off at Danbury AND been destined for Harlem River. However, that meant a layover from 9:45 AM one day until the wee hours of the following morning (when QH3 --- or RH1, whichever symbol happened to be in effect in a given year --- left Danbury on its return run to Oak Point/Harlem River. Not a great way to ship something so perishable, but not implausible.

As I wrote earlier, I know the milk car came off #141 at Danbury.

Milk

In the freight train book of April 25, 1920 is shown Train QH-1 (No. 573) "Canaan-Harlem River Milk Train - Handles milk shipments from stations Canaan to Brookfield Junction, also from stations on C.N.E. Ry. via Canaan. Picks up Danbury milk shipments from stations Poughkeepsie to Mill Plain and Litchfield to Hawleyville, for points on New York Division. Loads and unloads milk en route. Connects at Canaan from Sheffield, Great Barrington and points north."

This train was due out of Canaan at 1.35 p.m. It stopped at Cornwall Bridge, New Milford, Brookfield Jct., Danbury, South Norwalk, Stamford, Port Chester, New Rochelle and terminated at Harlem River at 11.10 p.m. Its return was HQ-2 - which handled milk cans for the reverse route.

North of Danbury this train appeared as No. 573 (south) and No. 574 (north) in the ETT until 1925. It appeared in the freight schedule book until 1937 but was gone by 1939. The car on No. 141 was probably a remnant of this service. My guess is that where ever it was going, it would move on a local freight probably the 'Dock' local south to Norwalk.

Milk

Coming off the Danbury Branch in mid-morning, it may have been dropped at Stamford in the west pocket track, to be picked up by the next Harlem River Branch train, and dropped by them at Oak Point. A passenger consist book for the timeframe might be of some assistance.

NH op's on the bershiresline in ct?

Thank's guy's for the info on the milk shipments I had no idea that this state ship as much milk to require trains let alone the amont of farm's required to produced that much milk.What a about passenger service I know the ski trains used the line.But what about comuter trains and what type equipment would have been used.Would RDCs been used?

Berkshire Borden's Car!

Your having a photo of the Borden's milk car coming off of Train #141 at Danbury with the power change there is pretty much what I felt happened. Although the "Q" didn't leave Danbury until around midnight, there is the Dock Local to consider as having moved this car from Danbury to at least as far as South Norwalk where it could have been picked up by one of the Shoreline freights headed for Harlem River. The Dock Local listed in the Scheduled Freight Service booklet for 4/24/38 (which then operated through to Stamford) is shown as going on duty in Danbury at 8:30pm and goes on to state that HANDLES MILK AND EXPRESS BETWEEN DANBURY AND STAMFORD. That would mean that the car in question would still have laid around all day in Danbury. I am not sure just when the Dock Local was changed to mornings out of Danbury; however, the Scheduled Freight Service booklet for 4/28/40 shows it going on duty in Danbury at 7:00am. If there was work to do in Danbury before departure, there is no reason to think that it would have left Danbury prior to train #141's arrival. Going back to 1937 (Symbol Book #63 of 4/25/37), there was direct service out of Canaan at 2:30pm (IH1) getting to Harlem River at 10:40pm. This train is definitely shown as handling milk. The Year 1937 is probably the last year of this particular train's operation. To confuse the situation a bit more; however, is the beginning of the ten to twelve minute layovers in Canaan for trains #139 and #141. According to the schedules that I have of these trains, the effective date was June 21, 1936 and this layover lasted until mid-1940. If IH1 ran until mid-1937, it may not have handled the particular Borden's car we are trying to trace.

Mystery (partially, anyway) Solved!

Thanks to efforts made by Pete McLachlan (hopefully, no explanation is needed on who he is), the mystery of where the car of Borden's bottled cream (sent out of Canaan each and every day in the mid to late 1930's on trains #139 and #141) wound up after arriving mid-morning in Danbury has been solved. That is, as far as it's travels over rails of the New Haven RR is concerned. It turns out that this car was taken by local freight (on duty at 9:20am each day) out of Danbury over to Brewster where it was turned over to the NYC's Harlem Line for handling to a Borden's plant in the New York City area. Pete happened to have found this information in a 1938 NH RR "Arranged Freight Train Service" symbol book (Employee Edition) which I also found in a similar edition that I have for 1937. I will now try to find out how this car was handled by the NYC out of Brewster from a friend of mine who once worked on the Harlem. Stay Tuned!

Borden's Milk Car out of Canaan!

I have heard from my NYC Harlem Line expert and he tells me that the milk car loaded with bottles of cream out of Canaan every day in the mid to late 1930's probably continued on in to New York City via freight KN-2. KN-2 was due out of Chatham at 10:25am and probably got to Brewster in the 4:00pm to 5:00pm time period. In the opposite direction, NK-1 was called to leave 60th Street at 12:30am which would have put it in to Brewster somewhere around 5:00am to 6:00am. The handling of this car (both loads and empties) to and from the New Haven interchange was probably done by the Putnam Junction yard switcher. Any questions? If not, I rest my case.

Milk on the Berksire

The discussion leaves me with a couple of questions. Has the picture of the Danbury power change with the milk car showing been published where it could be viewed?

If not, what type of car was it, one of NH's 36 ft can cars, a NYC car, or something else?

Does anyone know how late the dairy at Cornwall Bridge was in operation? When did references to the milk shipments dissappear from the NH documentation?

Berkshire Line Milk Service!

I personally do not have a photo of the power change in Danbury where the Borden's car was taken off from trains #139 and #141 each morning in the mid to late 30's. Pete McLachlan tells me he has a couple of different shots of this move; however, he is not on the Internet. I believe that Tom Curtin has mentioned that he has at least one shot of this move also. Probably none of these photos has ever been published.

I do happen to have a picture of a milk car near (but not in) the Canaan Borden's plant and it is a New Haven one numbered 24793. This is probably one of the 36' cars Pieter mentioned.

As for as how long the creamery lasted in Cornwall Bridge, I have posed this question to Casey Cavanaugh who grew up there and I am awaiting his answer to see if he can answer this.

Cornwall Bridge Creamery!

I have received word from Casey Cavanaugh (who grew up in Cornwall Bridge) that the creamery once located there was in operation right up through the end of World War II; however, during the period that he remembers, the only movements in and out of this facility were by truck and not by rail. On that news, I would venture to say that the rail service in and out of the Cornwall Bridge creamery probably ended some time in the early to mid 1930's.

NH op's on the bershiresline in ct?

Berkshire Milk train Ops

Great! Thanks for checking. Gradually bits of info on NH milk operations are starting to come out. It appears that milk operations may have lasted a bit longer on the East End.

Berkshire Milk train Ops

It is interesting to find that the routing for milk traffic had that lateral move between Danbury & Brewster. The valuation map I have for Mill Plain includes a creamery on the north side of the tracks. The siding was set up with a trailing point turnout so that it would be serviced by a west bound train. I would imagine that the same train that picked the milk car in Danbury would have also picked up the milk car at Mill Plain and forwarded it to the NYC at Brewster.

Cornwall Bridge

Does anyone know what the business was that was between the tracks and the river just below the station? When I visited there a few years ago, there were still foundations for a building and IIRC four tanks or vats. Any ideas? Thanks.

Other Cornwall Bridge Business!

Bill, what you saw were the foundations for a company that shipped spring water by rail to New York. I have seen pictures of the operation; however, I can't recall it's name. The spring is still there near the old railroad station and flowing profusely; however, the company that bottled the water is long gone.

Cornwall Bridge

Every answer begs another question. What time period was the water shipped? Did this business last into the 50's or was it gone before even the milk traffic ended?

And while I am at it, just south of the creamery, there is a more modern heating oil facility. Did this ever receive oil by tank car? Was this a coal operation in the 50's & before?

Thanks for any help on these it's much appreciated.

Milk trains

I believe the biggest --- and longest lasting --- milk operation served by the New Haven was nowhere near The Berkshire, but rather over on the Air Line. I understand the company was Eastern Dairies, located at Amston, CT. I don't know anything about the operation, perhaps someone can comment on it

WHEEEE DOGGIES!!! This thread's getting good!

Milk Trains on the Airline. A first for me. It just goes to show you that once a thread goes "sideways" you never know what you will learn...

Milk trains on the Airline

The late Charles Brown had an article in the Shoreliner in the late 1980's on this service. The General American milk tank car appearently loaded one 3000 gal tank in Amston, the other in Westchester Connecticut and delivered to New Haven Dairy in New Haven. Lionel released their milk car in this lettering last year, and NHRHTA still has some F&C resin kits although the Concord Junction decals included in these are not accurate. The car shown in a follow up the next issue was painted in 1927, but the EDIX reporting mark is not to be found in the early 1930's Registers and I have not been able to trace (in admittedly limited trying) when they became extinct. The cars were probably repainted with different reporting marks for General Ice Cream Corp. which took over the New Haven Dairy, as a photo of such a car appeared in the C. Brown article. The company probably became part of Sealtest in the 1930's. Best guess is that the service ended in the early to mid 1930's, but that is just a guess. It was NOT the last milk train service on the NH, as that honor probably goes to the White Brother's Dairy in Quincy, Mass that received a car a day until about 1953 (also documented in the follow letters to the Shoreliner, and in the Newsletter ca. 1981).

Does anybody have documentation of this service and when it ended?

Cornwall Bridge Water Co.

Bill, the water company shipping spring water out of Cornwall Bridge probably lasted up until the early to mid-30's. I worked at the Cornwall Bridge station a few times in the late 40's not too long before it was finally closed and the buildings had already been torn down by then.

Cornwall Bridge

Thanks. I've been wondering about those old foundations for a few years now. It's nice to know the story. If I can manage to fit a model version Cornwall Bridge into my layout, all I have to do is include the foundations as part of the scene, since I'm focusing on 1952.

Re: Cornwall Bridge