I recently obtained a trolley timetable for the city and suburban lines in New Haven from 1943 and believe me it is very interesting to read. I made a copy of each page on my copy machine so I could seal the timetable itself in plastic and preserve it.

There have been a number of books written about the Connecticut Company and Branford also has video tapes of old films showing the cars in New Haven and maybe other places too.

Connecticut Company in the trolley days in New Haven was a big time operation in every way, I was doing a little study and even in September, 1948 just before the end with only two lines remaining, it still took around 35 cars just to run to Savin Rock and Dixwell Avenue which were the last two lines to run.

When the 1943 timetable was printed, they had owl cars on the State Street, Dixwell Avenue, Whalley Avenue and Savin Rock lines.

I hear a lot about modeling the NHRR but have any of you ever thought about modeling the Connecticut Company in New Haven, Bridgeport, Hartford or Waterbury?

Some of the lines in New Haven in the mid to late 40's were so heavy that there was some talk that they would retain the trolley cars on some of the heaviest routes.

I have heard that they actually were considering buying some of the newest stuff off the Third Avenue Railway in New York which was repidly going to all bus operation although the cars remained in Yonkers until about 1952.

Most of the old wooden trolley cars at Branford lasted just about up until the end in 1948. The company also had a large fleet of steel cars too, 3000 and 1911 at Branford are two survivors and 3000 came from the Torrington Division originally.

There is a lot of interesting history here too and it was part of the New Haven Railroad.

--- As usual your comments are right on the money. I'm sure there are many who model some of the the Conn. Co. as a part of a larger railroad. I have one, so far static trolley on the layout, headed for NH station. I plan to add at least a short section of track with a car on it in the business district.

Let's hear from anyone modeling the Connecticut Co. The trolleys were gone before I was born, but I have enjoyed them at Branford and Warehouse Point.

--- The Stamford "O" scale model railroad club has a beautiful trolley setup along side their New Haven operation. The trolley is as long as the layout itself. The club is beautiful!

--- When I was a kid, it was a regular thing in our house to "go to the trainshow" That meant the twice a year public show by The New Haven Society of Model Railroad Engineers. Long title, even longer track plan. Located at State & Court streets in NH, They had an O gauge layout that was not only huge, but populated by custom built brass EP-3's, EP-4's, steamers, passenger cars and Connecticut Co. trolleys of all varieties, from "Yale Bowl cars" to the hefty 1900 series cars. What a show !!! Dick Lee took care of them in one swipe of his pen.....! They were on the cover of Model Railroader way back....I don't remember when.

The Connecticut Company gets far too little attention, as Noel mentioned. It WAS BIG ! Intercity runs were commonplace in the old days, prior to WWII. There were no less than 3 lines that went to Savin Rock (an amusement park) even after 1945. The D (Dixwell) the R (Second Ave WH) and the J (Whitney Ave - Dawson Ave.)

When I was a kid in the 50's, there were lots of tracks still in the streets of Milford from the NH to Bridgeport line. The Conn Co had a private bridge over Indian River behind my house.

Thankfully the BERA preserved many of these treasures for us to see and ride on today.....thanks guys (&gals)

Reversible cane seats and the motorman sat on a stool, (sometimes).

--- Speaking of modeling, I have often thought that modeling the New Haven and the Connecticut Co. as they parrelled each other up the Naugatuck Valley from Derby to Waterbury would make a smashing layout theme.

You would, of course, have to date your operation June 20, 1937 or earlier since that is when the trolley operation ceased there (Remember, I'm the guy who's anal-retentive about such fine details).

--- In the Branford Electric Railway website, there is a great picture of a totally rebuilt Connecticut company car # 1911 on the Stoney Creek trestle and it says Waterbury on the route sign ! Nice car, ...and big, for a streetcar. After riding the "North Shore" I understand BIG....and FAST! The "loop" to Waukegan.....zoom!

--- Growing up in Port Chester NY in the late forties and early fifties, and having been exposed to nothing but New Haven trains, I set off to boot camp in March of 1960. ---arriving in Chicago heading up to the loop we waited for transportation to Great Lakes. Here comes the North Shore. I thought I had stepped back into the twilight zone! I have never seen anything like the North Shore in my life.

Third rail in the city and change over to overhead up the line. Just like on the New haven. You could hear them coming and going as they were quite loud and FAST!

They became my second favorite railroad after the New Haven, that is until I learned of the NYW&B.

--- When I was young, my parents took us to the model train show in New Haven which must have been on State Street. I remember that it was quite big. It was the summer of 1948 and quite interesting.

Much more interesting to me were the trolley cars still running around and it seemed to me all over the place. We left Torrington on a Saturday morning and drove through Waterbury and on to New Haven. We entered New Haven by the way of Whalley Avenue and I immediately felt very bad. It seems that the trolley cars stopped running here fairly recently as some wires were still up and some were down, the tracks were still in. We drove in to the city on Whalley Avenue and eventually we came to a live trolley line (the Dixwell Avenue line on Broadway) and actually saw live trolley cars. I sure did perk up now. I was all eyes, never saw so many of them in my short life and thought they would be there forever. Little did I know that in less than three short months, they would be gone from the streets of New Haven forever.

At the train show, in the back of the room were open windows and trolley cars were passing by there too.

I assume today that it was the viaduct.

After we finished at the train show, my father took me for a ride on the Winchester Avenue line and I was in "heaven" so to speak.

A few weeks later a tine piece appeared in the paper that the trolleys would be making their last runs on September 25, 1948 (actually early AM of September 26) and I put the make on my father to try to get down there to see them one more time but it was a no go, my mother trashed the idea.

Spin ahead to 1952 and there was a piece in the paper about the trolley cars running at Branford and I again put the pitch about going down there to see them once again. By this time, we were living in Waterbury and it was not as much of a trip so one Sunday afternoon, we took off for Branford. Car 923 (a Connecticut Company open car) was running on about a half mile of single track (to the end of the straightaway) but it was still very interesting.

I immediately wanted to join up but my parents would have none of it. They never would sign off so I could not become a member until I was 21 and I joined right around my 21st birthday. The first piece of railroad equipment I ever operated was a trolley car at Branford under the watchful eyes of an old timer. Again, I was in "heaven".

Meanwhile, in New Haven after the trolley cars made their last runs, the wires came down and the rails were either pulled up or paved over. At that time, the traffic patterns in the downtown area became one way as most of the downtown streets became one way streets.

Hartford lost its trolley cars in the summer of 1941 and New Haven would have followed quite soon after had not world war II interrupted the move. This might have helped the trolley museum movement get going at least so far as Connecticut is concerned. Many of the original lines in New Haven survived right up to the end of the war. They literally ran the wheels off of the cars during the period.

While I rode trolley cars in many places while I could, the trip on the Winchester Avenue line was the only time I ever rode trolley cars in the city of New Haven.

--- Great post Noel.... It's as if You were speaking my mind....everything you said has such a familiar ring to it. I was lucky, ...my grandmother lived in New Haven and she just loved to ride the trolleys. She and I rode all over the New Haven system "just for the hell of it" just to ride the trolleys!!

Our favorite trip was the G to Lighthouse Pt. with a stop off at the airport to watch an American Airlines DC-3 come in...... great days for a little kid!

By the way the Winchester was the O line, if I recall, and Whalley was the B...Pond Lilly to City Point>

Great nostalgia.....thanks

--- PS My last 10 years at Exxon I was based in San Francisco where PCC cars are standard on the Market Street (suface) to Fisherman's Wharf loop. Great fun.

They have each one painted for a transit system that had PCC cars. There is a Boston car. Most of their system is articulated Euro style cars....very nice, but not a real trolley car!

--- For the benefit of those who never got to ride a trolley car, I thought I would mention a list of places where they still run. This is by no means complete, but simply is a list of cities where I've ridden them myself in recent years, almost all on business trips.

US: - Philadelphia (Mosatly modern cars, but I understand they're putting some PCC cars back in service on at least one route).- New Orleans ("vintage," i.e., pre-PCC cars).- San Francisco (Lots of PCCs and even some real vintage stuff on the Market/Embarcadero line. And, I do mean trolley cars, not to be confused with the cable cars that are unique to that city). (I am not counting Boston, since the surface "Green line" routes aren't authentic streetcars, but rather run on dedicated right-of-way in the middle of the street). Europe:- Brussels and Antwerp, Belgium. The Antwerp cars, in particular, have pantographs that look for all the world like they came off an old New Haven MU. - Amsterdam, lots of routes.- Zurich. - Milan. This city in particular deserves note, since many of the cars appear to my untrained eye to strongly resemble the Connecticut Co. cars I have seen in photos!

--- Do you want the real deal/ the straight scoop ?

Look left to beautiful San Francisco and it's MUNI system. They have it all; Electric busses, cable cars, Euro articulated street cars, PCC cars, and historic trolleys on weekends....

Click on this; https://www.streetcar.org/fline-history/

This is the PCC car headquarters of the US. Once there, click on car # 1059, Boston elevated replica.

What a class act this is......and very much fun to ride. Take it from the voice of experience!

Bob Tracy (Former Bay Area resident)

--- Sorry if these questions are a little off-topic, but the trolley discussion has jogged my memory...

In which cities did the Connecticut Railway & Lighting Company operate? Did C. R. & L. run the line from New Britain to Hartford, or was that Connecticut Company? I am too young to remember any trolleys, but I remember that they had a bus garage on Chestnut Street in New Britain (old car barn?) directly in back of the old Strand Theater. When I was young, they also ran the connecting bus from the Berlin Depot to New Britain. C. R. & L. must have faded from the scene in the mid to late 1960's, although the company did last long enough to have had a handful of GMC fish bowl transit buses at the end.

Did the New Haven have an interest in C. R. & L. at any time?

Thank you.

--- Just north of us in Toronto Canada is a beautiful trolley system running Single trolley cars on an extensive system. The streets by the way are IMMACULANT! A very clean city.

Trolleys and later, buses and trolleys, was the only way I ever got around NH. That was my mode of transportation while messengering on the NH.

I would grab whatever passed the RR station going downtown. Get off at Church and Chapel and wait for the M trolley to take me to Rock St. at Cedar Hill. It would be the reverse going back to the station.

Twice I had to walk to Cedar Hill from Church and Chapel. They were both VE and VJ nights. Around the green and Church and Chapel it was just mobbed with thousands of people. If a trolley did try to mosey through, the smart asses pulled the trolley pole off the wires. So both nights I just walked with my mail sack up to Rock St. I didn't just carry local rail mail. I also had all the mail for XC and surroundings. Pough., Campbell hall etc. I had to hand the sack on the rear of either NO 7 or NO 21 on their way out of the WB Dept. yard.

In my dotage I sometimes marvel, that in those days no one gave a second thought to a 15 year old standing next to a freight train leaving town and really hauling the freight. No one watched or was concerned. It was my job and it had to be done. In the nearly four years of working nights, the Conductor never missed a hand off of the mail sack. Especially on Thursdays, for all the paycheck for the XC area were in the sack.

I sometimes rode the George St. bus or the Chapel St. trolley to work, always changing at Church and Chapel of course and hopping on whatever went by the station. A good part of the time I just walked to the station. I weighed in at a hefty 135 lbs., legs and body were in good shape so I just hoofed it. Besides I saved a dime. Or three tokens for a quarter.

I wish they were still running, either buses or trolleys. They made living in the city worthwhile.

I am also thinking ahead to the day, if I live that long, when someone will want to take my license away. I wouldn't give a care if those old timers were still running.

--- It's a shame how short sighted we are, despite complaining about the past's short sightedness(EP-5's, et al).

The old Canal line could easily (at one point) been converted to a modern light rail corridor for commuting from Hamden, Cheshire, & Southington into New Haven. How easy.....of course it's way too late now. I'm certain that there are dozens of similar situations all over Mass. RI, and CT.

Down here in Florida, the governor is strongly resisting the building of a high speed rail link from Orlando to Tampa/St. Pete.....costs too much!

Look out the window Jeb, ... Interstate 4 is a6 lane parking lot every day ! AND IT AIN'T GONNA GET ANY BETTA !

--- Back in the 70's the Connecticut Co set up one of their GMC buses with Hi Rail gear to use on the Canal Line. It was tested at the Branford Trolley Museum but it was never used because the NIMBY crowd had a fit when they heard about it. The bus # 1712 survives today at Warehouse Point.

--- To answer the previous question about CR&L, I know that at least Bridgeport, and Waterbury, trolleys were operated by this company during their final year or two.

--- Hey everybody. As long as we are "off topic" (not in my opinion BTW) I have a question. When a train has to run on another line,(spur or connecting to another line) a switch must be thrown to achieve this. Trolley lines had no switches to speak of, at least in the inner city lines. How did a trolley accomplish this switching issue. I hope I worded this correctly.

--- I came from a railroad background and not a trolley background but I do NOT think that this is one bit off topic in any way. Connecticut Company originally ran a huge trolley network all over the state and it was owned outright by our beloved New Haven Railroad. The last time I knew, trolley cars ran with flanged wheels on railroad track.

I have done some research from the trolley timetable that I have which is dated December, 1943 and covers all city and suburban lines in New Haven, what I was able to come up with was quite interesting and I will share it with all who want to view it. The first item will be the letter designation of the line, the second item will be the number of cars on that line in the morning rush hour and the third item will be the names of the destinations:

A 5 Shelton Av. - Canner St.

B 6 Whalley Av.,Pond Lily - City Point

E 6 Whalley Av.,Westville - State St.

E 5 Whalley Av.,Davis St.

D 10 Dixwell Av.,Benham St. - Savin Rock Terminal

DD 4 Dixwell Av.,Pershing St. - Railroad Station

J 6 Church & Chapel - Savin Rock Terminal

J 6 Church & Chapel - Savin Rock Dawson Av.

O 5 Winchester Av. - Washington Av.

S 5 Winchester Av. - State St.

G 7 West Chapel - Lighthouse

H 3 West Chapel - Momauguin

F 4 West Chapel - Branford

M 14 State St. - Congress Av. West Haven Car Hse.

K 7 State St. - Congress Av. West Haven Car Hse.

R 6 College and Elm - Second Av.

Y 3 East Chapel

Z 5 Whitney Av.

Owl 2 All night service once an hour was provided with two cars, one running on Dixwell Av. to Pershing St. and Whalley Av. to Dayton St. The other car ran on State St. to Lyman St. and to Savin Rock Terminal.

The total of the above appears to be 109 cars but I suspect there were more, factory trippers, special runs, school trips and emergency trippers probably accounted for a number of more cars in use.

The above is the AM rush which appeared to be the time of heaviest operation. As you can see, most of the lines were through routed, this continued well in to the bus period and perhaps continues even today.

There was a little confusion on my part while working on this but maps helped as did track diagrams. Some of the above lines such as Congress Avenue to the West Haven car house ran full service during the rush or busy hours and cut back at Orange Avenue and Admiral Street with every other car at other times.

By running most of the system as through routed, they could run the cars through downtown New Haven without having to change ends in the middle of a busy street or having cars lay over for schedule purposes.

Base service on most lines seven days a week was every 12 minutes with 6 minute service on some lines but not to the end of the line such as Whalley Avenue and Dixwell Avenue. Lighthouse had 15 minute service and Momauguin and Branford had 30 minute service. Second Avenue had 12 minute service during the busy hours and 24 minute service the rest of the day.

Seems to me the busiest area other than Church and Chapel was Savin Rock which had three lines D, J and R. Must have been some operation on a busy summer Sunday afternoon when everybody was trying to get somewhere during the war when there was little gas for cars but Savin Rock was there for some R & R.

Hope I did not bore you with all of this stuff.

--- Sorry, I forgot to answer an earlier question regarding the C. R. & L. This portion was leased to the Conn.Co. sometime around 1906. The C. R. & L. operated cars and later buses in Norwalk, Bridgeport, Derby, Waterbury and New Britain. The above leased properties were turned back to the C. R. & L. on November 16, 1936. In less than a year, all of the C. R. & L. operations had been changed over from trolley to bus.

Another thing, from what I can find out, the Connecticut Company was very friendly to fans and many trips were operated throughout New Haven using some very unique equipment. They had parlor car 500 and also the open cars available for trips of this nature.

--- Every corner that a trolley turned had a switch prior to the turn. The conductor went on the ground with a pry bar of some sort, it had a looped handle and a wedge at the end. He just pried the switch over, got back on the trolley and off he went.

We used to the same thing, when working out of Belle Dock and had to go over on Forbes Ave. If the engine had to turn down towards the docks, one of the crew would pry over the switch, and different from the trolley move, there was a rubber wedge that we put back to hold the switch point in place.

The CR&L had buses that ran on Orange St. in NH. I don't know where they started from, but they ended up at the rr station. I believe they were colored cream on top and green on the bottom half of the bus.

--- Not only was the Connecticut Co. owned by the New Haven, but the Connecticut Co. operated cars over the New Haven on several lines, including East Hartford-Rockville,Cromwell-Middletown,Berlin-Middletown and Meriden-Middletown in central Connecticut. An old time block operator once told me that the Valley line between the Berlin Branch switch and Middletown station was the busiest stretch of single track on the New Haven on account of all the trolley movements over the line.

Also to add to Tom Curtin's commentary on trolleys and steam trains in the Naugatuck Valley a trolley line also ran north of Waterbury into Thomaston, much of it on a private right of way. Much of this can still be seen, especially at this time of year. This line shared at signal station, C265, at Waterville, where trolley freight crossed the Naugy to get into the Chase Brass Works. Two steeplecab locos were used, and these sat at "Noel's Roundhouse" in Waterbury for a time after they were retired at the end of trolley service in Waterbury.

--- If I remember correctly, CR&L and ConnCo shared the New Haven to Bridgeport "Post Road route. I think they alternated equipment hourly....that is to say, one hour a ConnCo unit, the next CR&L, and so on.

Each outfit also had routes that ended in Milford, and it was normal to see a ConnCo and a CR & L bus just sitting in the town Center.

I think N.E. Transportation did the NH - Bpt. run way back ...? I know they did NH - Hfd via Berlin Tpk.

I can recall seeing two Connecticut Co. and two C R & L buses in Milford center at one time ! A big deal for a little town of 16,000 ! Two would be the Post Road run (one each way) and the other two would be the "Shore Line" routes to and from NH or Bridgeport.

I think the Connecticut Transit still runs their "U" route to Milford center, then back to NH

--- I can remember seeing both CR&L and Connecticut Co. buses in Milford in the 50's and 60's. CR&L buses were green with (I think) cream trim, Conn. Co. were blue and white. CR&L ran to Bridgeport. In the trolley days, I believe both companies ran canary yellow cars with red lettering.

I have copies of the "Ride Down Memory Lane" booklet Branford published, a fourth edition published in 1957 in 8x10 format, and a sixth edition, published in 1975 in a smaller format.

As an aside, does any one know of a source for Connecticut Company decals or dry transfers?

--- Thanks to all for the C. R. & L. answers, they were very informative.

--- Ah..I see people snooping out Trolley info...Steel wheels and Steel rails..right? More elusive are 'industrial railroads' with a-many lost to history.

But do have a question. I'm looking at a 1907 postcard of a trolley in Derby. It has on front of trolley----pine rock park-stratford-bridgeport....Does anybody have an actual route map of Derby-Ansonia-Bridgeport?

Another...the Trolley Waterbury-Milldale--9 miles...AGAIN a 1907 postcard....